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When it comes to raw feeding, I follow the KISS system – keep it simple, sweetheart (I don't like to use “stupid,” it's rude). I don't believe raw feeding needs to be complicated, stressful, or overwhelming. I've been feeding raw for years and earned certifications in raw feeding and canine nutrition, but that doesn't mean I'm perfect. I've made several mistakes as a raw feeder. It's not the end of the world; the dogs survived my mistakes, and I learned how to do better.
5 Raw Feeding Mistakes I've Made
I made the following mistakes with my dogs and held a few inaccurate beliefs about canine nutrition.
1 – Believing 80/10/10 was Balanced
When I was new to raw feeding, everyone believed 80/10/10 was balanced. When people began discussing balancing the diet, the common responses were, “I don't balance my diet,” and “Wolves don't have spreadsheets in the wild.” While these responses are accurate, it's also true that an 80/10/10 raw diet lacks several nutrients.
An 80/10/10 raw diet for dogs refers to a diet that consists of 80% muscle meat, 10% edible bone, and 10% organ meat, with no additional carbohydrates or vegetation. While this diet can provide many essential nutrients, a few may be lacking if not appropriately supplemented.
- Fiber: An 80/10/10 raw diet primarily consists of meat, and it may lack sufficient fiber, which is essential in maintaining a healthy digestive system. In my dogs ‘ raw diet, I add vegetables and fur (rabbit feet and ears) as fiber sources.
- Calcium: While edible bone is part of the 80/10/10 diet, the fear of feeding bone may lead someone to add less than what's appropriate or choose the wrong bones (which has more cartilage than bone). It's vital to ensure that dogs receive enough calcium to support bone health, muscle function, and other vital physiological processes.
- Essential Fatty Acids: While some cuts of meat contain fats, an 80/10/10 raw diet may not provide an optimal balance of essential fatty acids, vital for maintaining healthy skin and coat, promoting brain function, and reducing inflammation.
- Vitamins and Minerals: Due to the cost of meat, it's tempting only to feed one or two proteins, which may also lead to a nutrient deficiency due to the lack of variety in the diet.
I began adding a base mix to my 80/10/10 blends to address potential nutrient deficiencies. Because I'm starting with more than muscle meat, I can use less of the base mix and still meet the nutritional needs of my dogs.
2 – Not Watching My Budget
When I joined our local raw food co-op, I went bonkers. Suddenly, I had access to more than just chicken; it was all affordable. Several times, I blew my monthly budget by ordering too much food without considering available storage space, what my dogs could/couldn't eat, and what I felt comfortable feeding. Too often, I was selling or giving away food that my dogs wouldn't or couldn't eat.
Today, I alternate five proteins in my dogs' diet (chicken, beef, duck, pork, and rabbit), keep my budget to $5/pound or less, and limit the amount of commercial raw I feed to my dogs.
3 – Believing All Raw Bones are Safe
As a new raw feeder, I quickly learned that not every bone was a good fit for my dogs. I've always supervised my dogs when I fed them edible and recreational bones, which allowed me to remove the bones that weren't a good fit. Today, I feed bones based on a dog's size and chewing style. The following are bones I feed regularly, and I also give my dogs air-dried chews from Real Dog Box.
- quail
- cornish game hens
- cubed whole chickens
- duck feet and necks
- lamb necks and shanks
4 – Adding too Many Supplements
When I was new to raw, I purchased every supplement someone recommended, making raw feeding more expensive than it needed to be. Today, I supplement to support my dogs' health. I primarily give my dogs digestive supplements to support gut health and the immune system. Mushrooms for disease prevention and longevity. Instead of buying every promising supplement, I focus on supporting a healthy gut microbiome by alternating a handful of respected brands.
5 – Depending on Spreadsheets and Software
Years ago, I created a spreadsheet to help me better understand what nutrients my homemade raw grinds covered. Years later, I began using Animal Diet Formulator software to understand how different foods changed the nutritional composition of a homemade grind. These are amazing tools, and I still use the software today. My mistake was thinking I couldn't formulate a DIY diet without spreadsheets and software.
Some people are trying to convince dog owners that we can't meet our dogs' nutritional needs without the guidance of a meal formulator or canine nutritionist. In some cases, this is true. A nutritionist is ideal if you don't have the time, knowledge, or desire to formulate meals for your dog. But if you want to do it yourself, it's not impossible.
Raw Feeding Can Be Complicated
Raw feeding can be complicated if you're working with a tight budget, limited resources, and a picky dog (or dog with food sensitivities or health issues). I've learned to be patient with my dogs and myself. I continue educating myself about canine nutrition, while also looking for sources.
Today, I get the ingredients to feed my dogs from:
- a local raw food co-op
- local farms/homesteaders
- restaurant supply stores
- grocery store outlets
- monthly sale at Julz Animal Houz
I took two courses through the Feed Real Institute that helped me better understand canine nutrition:
So sorry for the loss of your dog. Will your new pup be a GSD as well?
I enjoyed your article very much.
I fed raw food diet to my GSD. I used to buy all I needed for 2 weeks at a time, and would then prepare two weeks meals by placing 1 meal with bones, ground meat, liver, meat like chicken, necks, quarters etc, honey, probiotic yogurt, cottage cheese, sardines, whole egg, cod liver oil canines powdered vitamins and placed all for the one meal in a gallon bag and in the freezer and 3 days fresh in fridge. I then emptied this all into their clean bowls outside.
Voila. Poops were minimal and would disintegrate after a day or so into white powder.
She has since passed unfortunately to cancer. But I will do this again when I get my new pup in the fall.
I don’t know about cooked food for dogs; whenever I cook, I follow a recipe by Dr. Judy Morgan. She’s a fantastic resource for pet parents who want to cook for their pets.
I have changed to a cooked meal.
I use 3 pounds of ground Turkey one pound of ground hamburger meat ,I put pink salmon 2 cans 14 oz, 2 cans black beans,2 cups white rice ,carrots, sweet peas, sliced zucchini ,butter squash, apples ,bananas, blueberries a cup each 8 to 10 raw eggs with shell, and 4 tablespoons of gound calcium. Then I bake it like a meatloaf. They love it am I adding too much?
Hi Melissa
I have a “start here” tab on this blog and my home page (KeepTheTailWagging.com) also offers links to how to transition your dog.
I also have a book for new raw feeders: https://www.keepthetailwagging.com/noviceguide. Another great book is Raw Feeding 101 by Scott Jay Marshall II, https://amzn.to/2GLOKm6
Hello, I’d like to start my 5 year old Doberman guy who is 100lbs raw but have no clue how to start. I just recently switched to pro plan sensitive skin and stomach and he has been absolutely miserable. Head to toe scratching and his ears are badly irritated. I had him on acana and he did amazing but was looking for something cheaper. But now I regret switching. What do I start with and how much? How do I feed his kibble with the raw? Thank you
Truly thankful to have come across this article. You hit a nerve over and over, from the “commenting on what they know nothing about”, to “have you ever met a pit bull”, and most notably your relentless honesty about the journey you’ve taken with making the transition. Thank you for taking the time to write this heartfelt piece, it has rekindled my desire to dive deeper into researching this topic, and to provide my puppers the best possible life I’m able to foster for them.
I’m surprised they suggested that. Most raw feeders would have you slowly transition into raw but stop kibble immediately. First you would just feed.them muscle.meat for a week or two then slowly transition in bone then offal a couple weeks later.
I recommend Dr. Laurie Coger of Healthy Dog Workshop; she’s a holistic veterinarian who also naturally rears Australian Shepherds: http://healthydogworkshop.com/consultations/
Hello Kimberly and all of the readers… I ve been raw feeding for 3 years… Now my dog is pregnant… I am searching about anybody experience about giving raw food for weaning puppy…but I have to found it.. Thanks alot Kimberly… Apologize my poor English
Here is a post that I wrote about transitioning a dog to raw: https://keepthetailwagging.com/easiest-way-to-transition-a-dog-to-a-raw-diet/
I am new to this. I am trying to switch my Doberman over to raw but I am very nervous about it. Could you possibly email me a starter recipe? (Like what to put in the bowl) thank you for all the great information
Hi Mandy…
I have a friend who had a similar problem with her dogs – the poop was too small and so his anal glands weren’t expressing naturally. You can add more volume to the poop by using a base mix (I like Raw Vibrance by Dr. Harvey’s) or simply add more vegetables to the diet. The vegetables add nutrients and antioxidants, but I recommend them because they’re a great source of fiber as well.
And, finally, here are a couple of supplements that I love for anal gland health:
1) Olewo Carrots, https://amzn.to/2FtoYG0 (aff)
2) Scooter’s Butt Bar, https://www.herbsmithinc.com/scooters-butt-bar/ – when you use the code KTTW10, you can save 10% on your order.
I have recurring problems with my dogs anal glands. I feed him the meat and bone diet. Which is so good for his stomach but not the other end. The vet said it was because there wasn’t enough volume to his poop, so he ends up with very thick liquid in his glands. She suggested adding cooked rice to his food? I admit he didn’t have these problems on barking heads dry compete dog food but did bring up bile. Can you help me and my Labrador
Answers Pet Food is definitely a fantastic option. I feed my dogs their goats milk, kefir, cheese, fermented fish stock, turkey stock, and beef recipe.
Awesome article! I have an 8mo old large breed puppy and I would love to move him to raw but I’m concerned about ensuing the calcium and phosphorus levels and ratios are correct. I’m not sure how to calculate with Raw? My local pet store, who are very educated in raw, suggested that I try Answers raw patties and that I should not be concerned about the calcium and phosphorus amounts as these are balanced meals for all lifestages. Just wondered what you thought!
You can start at any time. Two of my dogs started after their 3rd birthdays and two started at 6 weeks old.
Hi now came across this I have a 5 month old bully puppy and want to start him on raw is this age to young if so at what age to start
That’s brilliantly reassuring Claire. Thank you so much for your advice. I’ve had my dog on a mix of kibble and raw and he appears to be very healthy. I had concerns about the mix but now can be rest assured that I am doing the right thing. Thankful for your input.
I purchased a 3/4 horsepower grinder from Cabelas.
Which grinder do you use for this? Mine already broke trying to ground bones .
Check out Answers Pet Food. Their food is fantastic, especially for dogs with kidney disease. Go to your local pet store (not PetSmart of Petco, it has to be a small local store) and see if it’s something they carry or can order for you.
Hi everyone, and thanks for all the great info so far. I’ve been researching raw diets for a couple of months now and just a couple of days ago we got horrible news that our boxer (9 months old), has kidney disease. I’m tottaly beside myself and upset. I’ve been told a raw diet will help her, so I’m scrambling trying to figure this out. Why does it have to be so confusing, lol. If anyone has any suggestions feel free to write me at BellaNavis@aol.com. Thanks so much.
Hi Amber, please check out this page of my website that has a lot of starter information 🙂
Best of luck!!! https://keepthetailwagging.com/rawfooddiet/
Hi Kimberly. I have been researching raw diets for months now and would like to start my Great Dane, Duke, who is 2 years old. Would you happen to have any suggestions on how I can make it easier for him? The reason I am switching is because we have gone through multiple dog foods….Canidae, Purina, Royal Canine, Blue Buffalo, you name it we have tried it. He either stops eating it after a week, gets a red skin rash, ear infections, his black coat loses its shine and starts to turn brown, etc. I figure I have nothing to lose by trying the raw diet. It cannot be any worse than switching his dog food brand. Any suggestions/recipes you may have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much and I love your article. So far, it has provided me with the most info.
Sandy,
I feed both ground meats (with bone) and I feel whole boneless pieces. I have two Labs (a diabetic boy who we rescued at an older age and another who suffers from severe digestive issues), neither could digest sturdier bones…like chicken legs or even chicken backs. They would pass large, sharp pieces of bone and I couldn’t take the chance of the bones causing internal damage. My boys do eat whole sardines and duck necks and they chew on large bones (like beef knuckle bones) for pleasure and teeth cleaning.
Some folks feed bone grinds because they have dogs who gulp their food or have issues that prevent them from digesting bones. Others have small dogs and find it easier to feed grinds so they can feed a balanced diet (ie 80-10-10).
There’s no shame in feeding grinds, it’s up to you and your dogs.
As far as tartar on the teeth, don’t be surprised if the tartar takes care of itself when you switch to raw. A lot of tartar is caused by the abundance of carbs found in kibble (usually around 40%), carbs are sugars and can literally stick to the dog’s teeth. 🙁
Don’t be afraid to switch to raw, while it seems overwhelming…it’s only as complicated as you make it.
Maybe use a pre-made mix until you feel comfortable making your own…? That takes the guesswork out of it.
Have you read Kimberly’s book? It’s full of down-to-earth tips on how to feed a good raw diet.
Feel free to ask questions on the blog. Lots of friendly people with good information hang out here. Best of luck…
Why do you choose to grind the meat? I’m trying to learn so I can switch my 50# almost 5yo bull terrier and the info out there is mind boggling to say the least. Some say no need to grind, others grind. If grinding, does their teeth still stay or get white? My pup has a tiny bit of tartar & I’ve read some say once going raw, the tartar comes right off, but is that from chewing the bones themselves rather than eating basically mush? I’m sure this gets easier but right now I’m reading and searching daily & too afraid to jump right in, plus my head’s ready to explode.
Thanks for weighing in and sharing your expertise. Please understand that this is a personal blog about my experience with my dogs so it’s not accurate to say that my experience – what I witnessed with my dogs – isn’t accurate. Rodrigo does have digestive issues, which I do state in this blog post. He did vomit because I mixed raw and kibble together, that is a fact. I also link to an article that goes into this belief. And my blog post states that one of my dogs got sick; Sydney was fine.
Thank you again for your thoughts and feedback on my blog post.
I am an animal nutritionist I got my degree at least Kansas State University. I like this article but I have to weigh in. The myth of it being bad to mix raw and kibble is wrong. Several physical studies have been done disproving that the raw digests faster than kibble. The facts are that kibble actually digests faster than raw having the raw mixed in will actually help your dog to digest the kibble slower and there for get more nutrients out of it.
You dog might have had digestive issues because he is prone to having issues and having his stomach deal with several different ingredient was causing a problem. It’s pretty common for dogs with sensitive stomachs to have issues if they aren’t put on diets that are considered limited ingredient (single protien/carb source)
Basically what I’m saying is I don’t think it was the combination of raw and kibble that caused the issue but more a combination of ingredients most likely a combination of or proteins or starches.
Thanks for putting in the time to write this! If I were you I would remove the part about mixing kibble and raw, or update it so it’s more accurate but other than that it’s a good read with good info.
Have you heard of Answers Pet Food? All of their food is fermented and many dogs with protein allergies are doing well on it. I also recommend a probiotic and digestive supplement to strengthen the gut and immune system and better deal with allergies and protein intolerances. My dogs get FullBucket (https://www.keepthetailwagging.com/fullbucket), raw goats milk, and kefir.
Hello Kimberly! Your information shared about your family has been so helpful! Although, I was so excited to put my Labrador, Coalmen, on the raw meat diet, that has allergies: pustules, chronic ear infections and runny nose, every time I feed him raw meat he breaks out. Have you heard of anything like this happening to any dogs? I was so hoping, as you had stated for your dogs, to be healed from all/most allergy symptoms. It’s been a sad upsetting battle. My vet will not see him; she wants us to go to a dermatologist that I’m assuming he will have to be on antibiotics. He has already been on apoquel for about 1.5 years, which was not working. Any clue on any solutions!
I love this post and I love the exchange. I too have a question about supplements. I feed Ziwi Peak, and alternate with steamed cauliflower and broccoli (never raw – because of digestion concerns) and Owega Carrots (thanks to you) – I want to learn more about supplements. Any links out there that you recommend for a novice?
You’ll have to teach her to eat slowly. You can do this by holding the meat while she eats.
I’m really happy with our dog’s diet. They love the raw food and they are much healthier. We have a small terrier who has always been bad at snatching and swallowing her food quickly. When she was only a puppy she swallowed a large piece of bulls pizzle whole and choked. She very nearly passed out it was very scary. She’s had a few close scares and it is truly terrifying. If anyone goes near her food or bones she basically swallows it whole and chokes. Today she did the same with a piece of meat in her dinner (they get a steak of beef) she didn’t chew it and swallowed it coughed it up and chewed swallowed choked and wobbled around at but and then it seemed to go down as she went back and ate the rest of her dinner. My question is what’s can we do to prevent this? She does it with everything and Will grab things and eat things before we have the chance to take it off her. Do you have any suggestions? The piece of meat she choked on today’s wasnt even very big! She’s a really small dog thoUgh. And I love her so much I just want her to be healthy and not get sick or have any accidents
We have our dogs on a raw food diet.
1. We buy cubes from out pet store that contains fruit veg and offal.
2. It took us some time to figure out how much to buy at one time. Now we buy enough for 50 tubs (which = 25 days) and we store it in a chest freezer just for dog food. So around every 25 days (if doing it alone) it takes about two hours.
3. It’s expensive, I’m not sure how expensive my mum buys it. We have a small dog and a large dog so between them they have around 520g in one tub and they have two tubs a day. There are websites that give information on how many grams to feed per kg of dog however this adjusts based on the dogs level of activity. It takes a bit of tweeking but it’s not too hard to get there!
4. They are fed in the kitchen. They have a work top that we don’t put any human food on and they have a mini fridge where their food defrosts for a day or so. We feed them in their dishes and then wash out the tubs with washing up liquid and they have their own sponge in a different colour to ours. We also wash their bowls after they finish with washing up liquid and hot water and that is all. However, we make ours up in the kitchen and it requires a large amount of cleaning afterwards as our dogs get raw undyed tripe which is harmful to humans so I would suggest making it up outside if you can.
5. We have seen much improvement in our dogs health. Their coats are much shinnier and softer. They don’t poop as much. (Analysing poop can give you an idea of what they need more of… if they are too runny we add More bone etc..) they are perfect weight. (When we got the puppy she had been starved and was highly underweight she was very unwell. Now she’s perfect and healthy) their teeth are now a lot cleaner and plaque free. And overall they appear happy and healthy! I wasn’t too sure about raw diet at first. It seems to be a lot of hard work from the outset but once you know what you are doing from a little internet research and if you really think about the rubbish that the dogs get in other foods then you will be very appreciative of this diet!
I do it all the time. This week, my dogs are eating duck wings, duck necks, and beef organs (liver + offal). It’s not always easy to stick with only one animal per meal unless you feed premade raw, which is expensive for me because we have 4 big dogs. I haven’t experienced anything bad with my dogs by mixing proteins.
Hi there, do you ever mix meats? Chicken necks with lamb heart/kidney etc? Or is it best to give chicken with only chicken etc
Tina! Whoa! That’s awesome! Where/how do you get your meat? 225$ is amazing for four dogs! I am trying out the raw diet for the first time and I am just running around town trying to find good deals on meat!
Thanks for weighing in with your thoughts. That’s why I try to always state that this is what I learned with our dogs. One thing that I’ve learned repeatedly is that there are different ways to do everything that work for different dogs and different families. I don’t expect everyone to agree with everything I’m doing and, in fact, have had people rudely disagree with me to the point of telling me that I’m risking our dogs lives.
I’ve learned not to get into a back and forth with others on what we should feed our dogs, because I’m not a vet nor a nutritionist and I have no idea about the health of other people’s dogs, but I do know our dogs and can speak from that experience and so appreciate when others share their own experience. My hope is that with several raw feeders speaking up, someone coming along will get a more well rounded picture of feeding raw.
Kimberly
I saw this a while ago, and I’m only just responding now, but there’s a number of things in this post that I disagree with.
Firstly, ground mince can form part of a raw diet, and is especially important if you are feeding raw to puppies (who can’t chew up bones to digest them to get calcium), and feeding raw to fat dogs (as a way of portion control). A diet of only mince is not okay, but mince can certainly make up part of a balanced raw diet.
The ‘kibble and raw digest at different rates and cause problems’ argument is exhausting. I often feed kibble if I forget to defrost raw food, and I have had no ill effects. Sometimes these meals are all kibble, sometimes it’s a bit of raw and a bit of kibble. Sometimes I eat burgers that have bread, tofu, and lettuce all in the same meal, and it doesn’t upset my stomach – it’s unreasonable to expect that combination meals are going to upset every dog’s stomach. Sure, if it doesn’t work for your dogs, don’t do it – but it’s not the case for all. Indeed, I’ve never seen a problem with this in the 50+ dogs that I have had come through my home in the last 5 years. Indeed, many people I know tend to feed kibble and only give their dog a bone once a week or so. Presumably, no ill effects (or they wouldn’t do it).
I agree with you when it comes to the leg bones and all the supplement brigade (no supplements are needed!). My dogs do not get supplements except elderly dogs with arthritis and the odd supplement for particular issues at the time (e.g. Clover had paraffin oil for a eating dumb things (plastic) the other day, and Myrtle got calcium sandoz after she had early stages of ecalmpsia after feeding a litter).
Raw isn’t complicated at all. Try to feed 80% meat/mince, 10% bone, and 10% offal (with most of that offal liver). It’s really not more complicated than that.
I’ve heard from people from other parts of the country where they can get raw meat for a great price. I tried the butchers in our area and it’s a no go; I think we’re still behind the times in my area. When people find out we feed our dogs raw, they’re either very interested (but afraid) or very surprised, because they’ve never heard of this.
Anyone hear about or use BlueRidge Beef co out of North Carolina? They supply raw for pets and have for years. Primal also has a few types 3 levels actually.
Although I didn’t feel comfortable feeding our dogs raw bones when they ate kibble, I have heard of others doing this. I did it a couple times and our dogs got sick. I thought it was the mixture, but it turns out that the marrow in bones is too rich for my dogs. If I were to do this, I’d give them the raw meaty bones as a meal late in the day maybe once a month.
But I’d much rather clean our dogs teeth another way and leave the raw bones out until I’m at least ready to go partial raw (kibble in the morning, raw in the evening – or vice versa).
One thing you CAN do is join a couple of raw food groups on Facebook (stay away from the really intense ones) and see what they have to say. It’s a really great question. If you make a choice, will you come back and let me know or email me? I’d love to hear what you do and how it worked out.
I’m just started reading about raw, not that I intend to move my dog to a raw diet. But I was wondering if it made sense to give her a bone now and then for teeth cleaning if nothing else. The thing I’m unsure about is, how do I get her to adjust to a raw knuckle bone safely? Have a good day 🙂
Hi Ashley – some dogs are lactose intolerant so you have to be careful with to dairy products (two of our dogs get the runs with too much dairy). Also, I’ve noticed that some Greek Yogurt is high in sugar, which can be a problem, but I’m not 100% sure.
Have you looked into bone meal? Not the type at the gardening store, but actually bone meal used in preparing food: http://tinyurl.com/lxhk8vb
About the cereal, instead of using Special K, have you considered using plain oatmeal (grinding it up)? I always worry about giving some human foods to our dogs, because even the “diet” versions are pretty unhealthy for their small bodies.
Looking forward to seeing Shira’s response.
Thanks for you response I really appriciate it. I looked into it a little further and saw that you can use a rice base cereal as well like Special K, and since you mentioned calcium I looked into Greek yougurt and may try adding that as well. Do you think this will add a good amount of calcium? I’ve struggled to keep weight on him for the last seven years and this seems to be working I just want to make sure its healthy and not going to harm him.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would have trouble ONLY feeding this to our dogs based on the recipes I read. I don’t know enough about the raw food diet outside of our four dogs to really comment fully, but if I were to make the recipe at home, I’d look for something with low sugar and I’d be leary of the wheat/grain (our dogs don’t need it) and it would be as a treat, not their main diet.
Of course, none of our dogs is having trouble gaining weight. If that were to come up, I’d take it to the group to see what others more experienced would recommend.
I don’t know what is in that supplement, and also in Total cereal. But looking at the other ingredients, I don’t see a source of calcium. Basically, this looks to be an unbalanced diet that may or may not be balanced by the addition of nutritional supplements. (Total cereal is supplemented with various vitamins and minerals, or at least that used to be part of their commercials.) I would be leery of feeding this diet long-term, and I wouldn’t feed it to puppies under 6 months of age, who generally can’t regulate the balance of calcium and phosphorous as well as adult dogs can. But maybe I’m over cautious.
Thanks for catching me up. Rebekah’s blog is http://www.myrottendogs.blogspot.com – I go there when she shares what she feeds her dogs.
I read your earlier comment to indicate Rebekah has a blog?
Yep, we can’t do the antlers either. Our dogs chew way too hard. The knuckle bones seem to be softer and I take them away when they can be swallowed.
I love that I’m not the only one with these experiences 🙂
Sorry, Shira – I lost track of the conversation. Which blog are you referring to? I’d be happy to post a link 🙂
I actually tried to research other breeds that had intolerances to a raw diet, but could only find information about Dalmatians – and I only learned about Dals from a friend who loves the breed and knows lots about it. This is why I’m so hesitant to give people details of what I feed our dogs. It’s not as cut and dry as following a stranger’s recipe.
Great article! Found myself nodding along, having had similar experiences or heard similar misconceptions. I remember being surprised at all the ingredients needed in a complete raw diet. We also do not mix kibble and raw for the same reasons you mentioned. Our experience has been that the giant, hard bones are okay for our guys (they actually don’t try to eat those ones – softer ones they will), but we do stray some smaller hard ones, like elk antlers to prevent tooth injury potential.
I’ve never heard of satin balls before today. I did a search and found this link (http://www.holisticdog.org/Nutrition/Satinballs/satinballs.html) and if you scroll down you’ll see 2 opinions right off – one says that they are a complete diet and another says that they’re not.
Looking at the recipe, I’m a little concerned about the cereal and the wheat, but I bet there are other ways to make them. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I was just curious I have seen in multiple blogs and what not that satin balls are a complete diet is this true I have a boxer that has trouble gaining weight and he seems to be doing very well on those strickly if they are not what should I add? Also his teeth aren’t very strong ( he’s old for a boxer) what do you suggest I give him?
Blog? Can you post a link?
Some really great information here about the fact that although it may not be complicated once you learn. But seems to be a bit overwhelming at first glance.
The example you give though about Dalmatians not being able to digest purines in organ meats, does kind of make things complicated if you have a mixed breed and don’t know what the breeds are your dog is mixed with.
I’m guessing the Dalmatian example is just ONE example and there are other breeds who aren’t able to tolerate or digest other things that could be otherwise healthy for other breeds.
It’s easy to weight the puppies regularly, because they have their vet appointments, but this year will be our first full year on raw, so it’ll be interesting to see what adjustments we’ll have to make come spring and summer. I want to start taking our dogs on hikes and more strenuous walks, so I know that’ll impact their diet as well.
Right now, I’m focused on doing the rib test, making sure they have a waist, and checking poop consistency. My boyfriend has gotten used to telling me “Scout and Zoey both went poop, it was solid and the color was…” At first he was grossed out, but now he does it without thinking.
We’ll also be bringing back in raw meaty bones when summer comes so I wonder how that’ll impact that day’s meal.
I’m looking forward to it.
By the way, I created a casual raw group if you’re interested called Raw Dog Food Chat: https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/rawdogfoodchat/
It’s just a sharing group and there are a lot of kibble feeders who are interested, but just want to take in what we’re doing. None of us are hardcore in our beliefs, we just want a place to go to get feedback.
You said it perfectly – it is dangerous and tempting. I find that when I do it, it’s because I’m just being lazy and I kick myself for doing what I complain about. And love the oil and water analogy. For our dogs, it was just that and quite a mess to clean up.
One goal this year is to see if there is a raw food coop in our area and if there isn’t look into starting one. Thanks for sharing the link; I’m going to check that out.
Thanks for sharing, Tina
What blows me away is your dog with IBS/D – I love that I have you to look to about raw. You have been such a complete inspiration in your support.
I thought I’d chime in regarding how/what I feed my pups:
1. Do you feed vegetables and or grains too? If so, which ones? are they cooked?
I DO FEED VEGGIES…CARROTS, KALE, PARSLEY…BUT THEY ARE PUREED TO OBTAIN THE BENEFITS. I ALSO INCLUDE GROUND OATMEAL IN MY RECIPE. NEITHER ARE COOKED.
2. How much do you buy at a time? Where do you store it? How much time are you spending preparing the food?
I BUY 50LBS OF CHICKEN AND 25LBS OF BEEF AT AT TIME, THIS WILL LAST MY 4 ADULT 75LB LABS ABOUT 18 DAYS. IT TAKES ME ABOUT 1 HOUR TO GRIND THE CHICKEN (INTO A HAMBURGER-TYPE CONSISTENCY) AND ANOTHER 2 1/2 HOURS TO MIX UP MY RECIPE…THIS INCLUDES CLEAN UP, TOO. I STORE THE MIXTURE IN TUBS IN A FREEZER IN THE GARAGE, AND THAW AS NEEDED.
3. How much do you feed the dogs? How much does it cost? Have you compared what you’re spending with a quality dog food?
MY DOGS EAT BASICALLY 2% OF THEIR BODY WEIGHT DAILY…ONE EATS A BIT MORE (HE HAS DIGESTIVE ISSUES AND REQUIRES MORE TO MAINTAIN HIS WEIGHT) AND ONE A BIT LESS (HE’S OLDER AND SIMPLY REQUIRES LESS).
I SPEND ABOUT $225 – $250 PER MONTH TO FEED MY FOUR, THIS INCLUDES SUPPLEMENTS (SPIRULINA, SALMON OIL) AND SARDINES/ORGAN MEAT THAT I TOP DRESS THEIR EVENING MEALS WITH.
PREVIOUSLY, I SPENT AT LEAST THAT MUCH MONTHLY ON PREMIUM DOG FOOD AT $55 PER 25LB BAG (BLUE BUFFALO WILDERNESS, PRECISE HOLISTIC AND NATURE’S VARIETY INSTINCT), NOT INCLUDING THEIR SUPPLEMENTS. ALSO, MY LAB WITH DIGESTIVE ISSUES REQUIRED TWO CANS OF FOOD (TO EASE WITH DIGESTION) AT THE COST OF $6 A DAY…ON TOP OF HIS KIBBLE COST. SO I’M SAVING $180 A MONTH RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE BY FEEDING HIM RAW.
4. Where do you feed the dogs? (Outside? Kitchen? Crate?) What kind of clean up is involved?
SINCE I FEED A GROUND MIX, THERE’S NO MORE MESS THAN WHEN FEEDING KIBBLE. THE DOGS EAT IN OUR TILED SUN ROOM, AND I WASH THEIR DISHES AFTER EVERY MEAL WITH SOAP AND HOT WATER AND WIPE THE COUNTERS WITH VINEGAR AFTER PREP.
5. Have you noticed any health differences with your dogs?
I HAVE TWO HEALTHY LABS WHO WERE EATING A PREMIUM KIBBLE ALREADY, SO I CAN’T SAY I’VE SEEN ANY DIFFERENCE WITH THEM. HOWEVER, MY LAB WITH IBS/D HAS MADE GREAT IMPROVEMENTS…LESS INTESTINAL TURMOIL AND LESS FREQUENT BOUTS OF DIARRHEA (ONCE EVERY SIX WEEKS RATHER THAN DAILY) AND HIS STOOLS ARE FIRM (PREVIOUSLY, THEY WERE ANYTHING FROM FIRM TO COW PATTY TO BROWN WATER). MY 9 YEAR OLD DIABETIC IS THRIVING, TOO…JUST RECENTLY WE WERE ABLE TO DECREASE HIS INSULIN FROM 15 UNITS TWICE DAILY TO 12 UNITS. I CAN’T POSITIVELY SAY AT THIS POINT IT’S DUE TO THE SWITCH TO RAW FOOD…BUT IT’S THE ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED.
They have a great product, but it is cost-prohibitive for me to feed only their product. They have wonderful specialty items, and seasonal items. I’m hoping that they once again get bison, because I will buy bison liver, kidney, and tripe from them, as it is very affordable.
I also belong to an Indy-based coOp, http://www.rawpaws.org, and purchase chicken quarters, pork roasts, and occasionally liver from the grocery store.
Generalizing can be dangerous. And so temping too … As long as one is open to learning and hearing other people’s voices, I think they’ll do just fine.
As for mixing raw and kibble, that sounds very counter-intuitive and counter-productive to me. Like mixing oil and water.
Yeah we use a freezer in the summer, but I still have ’til May before I need to think about that, so it is currently unplugged 🙂
That is great about your friend. The breeder where I got my youngest feeds raw sometimes so that gave me a huge boost to start her off right, and having stores and vets here that support raw has been a blessing since so many places and people don’t have that.
It 100% is because of the research and knowing your dogs. I researched raw for 2 years before swapping, then finally jumped in. I did the same thing when I started. I was weighing out individual meals, bagging food and all this other craziness. I even originally tried dehydrating so I wouldn’t have to deal with the mess everyday and it would be more portable. Needless to say that didn’t work out at all. haha. But I stopped bagging meals as puppies fluctuate a lot and just started to roll with it. Now I weigh every once and a while to make sure my eye is right, but mostly I just go with it.
I don’t know if you have hit this point yet, but it is nice to be able to look at your dog, and tell if they need a little extra or a little less based on their mood, your activities, and their body. One thing that really helped me in the beginning was weighing my little one every week. I actually still do it because it makes me more aware of their health.
Thank you so much!!! I see people post things like they’re afraid that they’ll poison their dog and it makes me mad that people take advantage of that by writing articles about the dangers of raw. The truth is, you CAN poison your dog, but there are also things you can do to make sure that doesn’t happen. I just wish that the veterinarian community as a whole would help us better feed our dogs instead of spreading fear. But one cause at a time 🙂
Is that where you get all of your meat? I’m always stalking your blog just checking out what you get for your dogs. It’s amazing!
So true! It’s funny to say that too, because it seemed impossible that I’d get it all down and wouldn’t make our dogs sick. Today, I just do what I know and when I want to make a change, I ask and do research. It’s not bad at all and it’s great to be part of a community of people so willing to help.
Kelly – this is so amazing. Thank you. I really love reading about what you’re doing, because your life is so different than my own. We have a freezer and we don’t have access to hunters (often enough to count on them).
I know a local breeder that feeds her dogs and puppies raw food. She told me a few months ago that a new family called concerned about their puppy having skin allergies, they switched the puppy to kibble. She got them back on track with raw and trained them through the transition and now they have a happy, healthy puppy.
I was thinking that they were so lucky to have a veteran helping them through. Most of us are doing this on our own.
I’m finding that figuring out the amounts is intuitive too. People from our group have been saying that, but I created a schedule and calculated everything out. I even took all the dogs to the vet for a weigh in to make sure. Now, a few weeks making it at home instead of waiting for our Darwin’s order of premade raw, I’m surprised at how easy it is, but I know it’s partly because of all the research I did and partly because I know my dogs.
Thanks again for your detailed comment. I read it twice for all the great information.
Your post constantly amaze me! You always write with such understanding and I love it. That photo rocks too!
I agree completely! When I decided to switch to raw for Kayo’s health, I was traveling often and worked long days. I did a lot of research on what needed to go into a raw meals and realized that it wasn’t practical with my schedule to prepare that for her. It was something I wanted to do in the future (and I still do!) but knew I needed to go with something pre-made to ensure she was getting all the vites and nutes that she needed. I researched all of them and found one that provided a healthy balance.
Like you, I rotate proteins – we switch weekly. I’m a big research type so I looked into raw for several months before switching. I know not everyone can/wants to do that but your post gives some compelling reasons why owners should be aware about what they’re feeding their dogs.
Hey Kimberly. I saw your post so I came over to read the article. Great job 🙂 I also have a pet peeve about people commenting on things they aren’t familiar with. Your breeding comment made me want to keep going as I grew up training horses and dog, so I dealt a lot with breeders and get sore every time people accuse me of being a crappy person for getting a purebred dogs, or for deciding to get into breeding.
I figured I’d throw my hat in as I know that I feed in a bit of an odd situation, so maybe it would give some people a different view or idea of one of those many paths you can take 🙂
I’d also like to add that I have decided I will continue on raw when I have my first litter (pups and mom) because I am confident in the results I’ve seen with my and other dogs. It is something that not everyone chooses to do as they will swap while their girl is pregnant and/or not feed the pups raw because they may go to kibble fed homes. There are a lot of reasons that go into that choice (obviously) but I also felt it may be an interesting point for this little chat.
I’m going to try and follow those questions as well because they were so good. I apologize for the length, but didn’t want to not explain my choices or situation since a lot of raw feeding is based of of the specific dog/owner situations.
I don’t feed any veggies, grains, or fruit as part of the daily diet. My youngest girl is from a breed that is very commonly grain intolerant. I also have done a bit of research and although you can feed plant matter dogs aren’t equipped to fully digest it, so for them to get the full benefit of it you need to break down the enzyme walls – I don’t have time for that, no one really does, so I feed those nutrients in more easily digestible foods.
This is where I probably differ a lot from most. I buy every few months, or don’t buy at all. I live in Alaska, so in the winter we can store food outside as it is currently -30 where I am. So from October ’til May I don’t have to worry about storage, so I get meat from hunting (free), use last years hunt (cleaning out the freezer), everyone that goes hunting that we know bags all the organs for me as they would normally just be left in the field. Other than that I buy whole prey, cuts, and boxed scraps. I don’t usually prep a lot, maybe takes a minute more to feed a meal than it did with kibble, but nothing drastic.
I feed my youngest up to 3 lbs a day, sometimes more like 3.5 and I feed anywhere from 1.5 – 2 lbs a day to my oldest. I change the amount based on our activity, the weather etc, but it ends up being very intuitive. All the mushing teams feed raw in some capacity so we can get meat for as little as $0.20/ lb, or I can pay up to $5/lb if I’m spoiling my girls. I can feed two dogs for less than $500 a year (that is half of what it cost us for one dog on high quality kibble) It ends up usually mathing out to about 30-70$ a month.
We feed everywhere!! I take our raw show on the road. We are on trips a lot, so I’ve fed at rest stops, on the side of the road, in the pet store . . . But normally I feed large cuts in the yard – especially if it is over 20 outside, but right now they eat in the kitchen. I taught them to eat on a mat/in their bowl. Took about a week to train. I have a laundry bag in my kitchen and throw them in there when they are dirty and put a new one down. Other than that I just spray and wipe anything that gets dirty with vinegar and hydrogen peroxide (like I do for regular food prep)
Yes! I swapped because my oldest has hip issues. She also was having a few other issues from being fixed young and getting on in years (she’s *), and she was starting to develop other health issues. Since we swapped her she lost 20 lbs of fat and bloat and gained it back in muscle. Now she looks like she did when she was 4, can get in and out of our lifted truck on her own again, and can go on 5 mile daily walks. It is like having a whole new dog. She has also stopped having many of the other issues she had and her lymph nodes are decreasing in size, her coat is nicer. (we did more than just swap to raw for the health issues. she is also on glucosamine, but she was on that before, and on milk thistle, turmeric, and fish oil when that isn’t part of their diet.)
As a random added fact. I have comparative weights for my youngest’s littler over the last out of all of the other dogs which are kibble fed and from 4-5 months have been going through some crazy growth spurts.
Great post, great points! It is complicated, but its not once one gets the swing of it.
Shira, we feed very similarly. I am also a fan of My Pet Carnivore, and am fortunate enough to live about 45 minutes from their warehouse in Indy. I have an array of parts in my freezers currently.
I find that many people who do this think that they’re smarter than their audience and the rest of us won’t see through their lack of knowledge. It’s all about fear when it should be about sharing.
Thank you so much for sharing, Shira!!! This is great. I think I’ll invite other raw feeders to do the same 🙂 It’s cool to see what others are doing.
I find it interesting the different ways everyone can feed raw and what we learn as we go along. I’ve considered taking workshops on raw feeding, but there are so many different diets out there that I decided to just figure it out for myself.
When we started, we did raw in the morning and dry in the evening.
These are all very important thoughts and tips. But my favorite part of the post was the beginning where you mentioned people commenting on topics that they don’t know anything about. People all of a sudden have an opinion and know everything when they are “against” a topic. It’s such craziness, and it’s fun to watch uneducated people try to come up with an educated answer!
This is a very nice article 🙂 , very useful info for us thank you
Kelley and Kimberley, I hope you will not mind if I also answer these questions. I’ve been feeding raw for about 15 years.
1. Do you feed vegetables and or grains too? If so, which ones? are they cooked?
I do not. I feed, well… body parts. They had turkey necks this morning and pork kidneys this afternoon. At the moment, there is also beef heart, beef tripe, turkey hearts, and various chicken parts in the freezer.
2. How much do you buy at a time? Where do you store it? How much time are you spending preparing the food?
I buy 50-80 pounds at a time for my 3 dogs and store it in a freezer in the garage. Other than thawing, it takes practically no time to prepare, since the most I ever do is cut off pieces.
FWIW, I source almost entirely from two places. 1) A meat vendor at a nearby farmers’ market sells me her “unsaleable” cuts for $1 to $2 a pound. This is my preferred source, since it is also suitable for human consumption. (Yes, I do raid the dog freezer sometimes, as, for instance, if I need chicken feet for stock or pork neck bones for sauce!) 2) mypetcarnivore.com, which supplies tripe and ground fowl. (The ground food is for the cats). It is a bit more expensive and also not suitable for human consumption. But worth it for the specialty items.
3. How much do you feed the dogs? How much does it cost? Have you compared what you’re spending with a quality dog food?
The mathematical answer is to start at 2% of the dog’s body weight per day and then adjust as needed. Truth to tell, I am not so precise. We recently got a third dog, who is smaller than the others. I guestimated his meals based on what the other dogs eat, then upped it because he has a pretty high metabolism.
It’s been so long since I fed kibble that I could not guess whether the cost is comparable, sorry.
4. Where do you feed the dogs? (Outside? Kitchen? Crate?) What kind of clean up is involved?
I feed the two big dogs on the deck outside. The little guy will eventually be fed there, too, but he is not yet fully integrated with his big brother and sister, so he gets fed in or near his crate. Not much cleanup involved.
5. Have you noticed any health differences with your dogs?
So, when I first started feeding raw, I had an elderly dog with arthritis. He had been a bit of a problem child, given to climbing fences and other escape tricks, but at this point he was moving rather painfully, and glucosamine didn’t help much. Six weeks after he began eating raw, he climbed the fence again. That gave me the idea that I was on the right track, and I haven’t had reason to doubt it since.
Whenever I go to the vet, they remark on how healthy my dogs are, how clean their teeth are, how soft their coats are, etc. (Some of them then go on to insist that I should be feeding something else! But we have come to an agreement to disagree by now.)
I hope this helps. Obviously, I think raw feeding is the way to go.
Shira
Most people suggested I mix the dry food in with the raw when I was first transitioning my dog. So that’s what I did. He seemed to do OK, but now that I’ve done more research I think it’s best to just switch them over “cold turkey,” at least in most cases. Today I feed my dog a combo of raw and dry to save money, and I just don’t include both in the same meal. This seems to work OK for him. I also used to feed him veggies with most raw meals, and now I’m leaning towards the belief that they’re just not necessary.
Happy to answer questions! This is one of my favorite topics!
1. Do you feed vegetables and or grains too?
If so, which ones? are they cooked? – I do not feed vegetables typically, because I believe that dogs have a tough time digesting them and they don’t get the benefit we do from them. I know that others do feed vegetables, but I’ve found that many people choose them based on what they can give their dogs and they’re pureed so that the dogs can digest them easily.
My thought is that if my dogs have trouble digesting them, then it’s taxing their digestive system, which impacts their immune system. So I only give them veggies, like pureed pumpkin, when they need it – pumpkin is great for upset tummies and loose stool. Also, if your dog is scooching a lot on the carpet, pumpkin will help.
2. How much do you buy at a time? Where do you store it? How much time are you spending preparing the food?
I buy 2 weeks worth of meat at a time; 80 pounds of chicken, 10-15 pounds of ground beef, and 6 pounds of organ meat (liver, gizzards – hearts are muscle meat). This lasts for 14 days. We store it in the freezer and take it out on a Saturday or Sunday to thaw (but not all the way) and chop up the chicken with a meat clever and grind it down in our meat grinder. It takes several hours to grind the meat and put it in the containers to freeze.
3. How much do you feed the dogs? How much does it cost? Have you compared what you’re spending with a quality dog food?
We feed our dogs 6# of food a day. We based it off of a percentage of their body weight. I have an Excel schedule that tracks their weight, how much we feed, and our budget for the month. We spend about $225-$250 a month on meat. When we had three dogs on kibble, we spent over $300 a month and had to contend with allergies, skin rashes, digestive issues, and ear infections.
4. Where do you feed the dogs? (Outside? Kitchen? Crate?) What kind of clean up is involved?
Since we grind our meat up, we just feed them in our kitchen in their dishes. I chose to grind the meat, because I want to know exactly what our dogs are eating and be confident that they’re getting the right nutritional balance. I wash the dishes when they’re finished and wipe down the counters with a kitchen cleaner.
5. Have you noticed any health differences with your dogs?
All the health differences they talk about, we noticed right away. All the allergies, skin rashes and digestive troubles went away. Their coats are not only shiny, but they’re soft too. It cracks me up when people pet our dogs and comment on how soft their coats are. The adult dogs have some relief from joint pain; it’s not gone, but it’s better and we give them a joint supplement. We went to the vet for the first time a couple weeks ago, because the puppies needed vaccinations and Sydney had an injury. And I wanted to weigh them. Sydney weighs 72 pounds (at her heaviest, she weighed 92#). Rodrigo is down to 72# from 82#, and our vet is impressed at how healthy the puppies are and says that they’re looking great (she’s not a raw food fan, but she says we’re doing something right). Rodrigo’s ear infections have vanished. Our dogs don’t get fleas, their teeth are super white. Their poop is smaller, less smelly.
I can go on and on. It’s pretty amazing.
That’s how I feel too. I honestly believe that our adult littermates wouldn’t have had the health issues (although minor) they experienced if I had started when they were younger. I’m glad that I can get Scout and Zoey started off right 🙂
Awesome article, Kim.
I was overwhelmed when I started reading about raw food recipes and the such. Some recipes had so many ingredients, I was worn out just reading about them……..others had so many expensive supplements added, I would have broke the bank just making the dogs’ food.
I’m not an advocate of tossing the dogs a chicken leg and calling it done, I feel like I need more control over the amount they eat and I want to ensure they get a variety of nutrients.
I’m glad I took my time and did my research before jumping on the raw food band wagon. I just wish I would have done it a lot sooner.
I’ve thought of going raw, but changed my mind many times. It does seam complicated. I’m afraid of not being clean enough. If you don’t mind, I have a few nuts and bolts questions.
1. Do you feed vegetables and or grains too? If so, which ones? are they cooked?
2. How much do you buy at a time? Where do you store it? How much time are you spending preparing the food?
3. How much do you feed the dogs? How much does it cost? Have you compared what you’re spending with a quality dog food?
4. Where do you feed the dogs? (Outside? Kitchen? Crate?) What kind of clean up is involved?
I know. Lots of questions. I’ve heard pros and cons too, but only “in theory.” Thanks. — Kelley
5. Have you noticed any health differences with your dogs?